Tibetan Medicine: Studying in Dharamsala
Memories of studying Tibetan medicine and astrology in Dharamsala, India
In 1997 I packed my bags for Dharamsala, the home in exile of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, to study Tibetan medicine and astrology at the Medical and Astrological Institute. I didn’t fully know why I was going. I just knew I had to.
This episode isn’t a lecture. It’s stories: the people, the places, the moments that stayed with me for nearly thirty years. That includes a celebration I’ll never forget, and a gold ring and earrings made for me by a man who walked out of Tibet with His Holiness.
Sometimes spirit puts us exactly where we need to be, and we only see why years later. This is one of those journeys.
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Episode Transcript
My 1997 journey to Dharamsala to study Tibetan medicine and astrology at the Dalai Lama's Men-Tsee-Khang: stories, people and a celebration I'll never forget
Hello, Karen here from Soulful and Wild, and today I'm actually going to share some memories with you about a trip that I went on in 1997, which is quite a long time ago. At the moment... it is 2026 so that's 29 years ago if my math is half decent. Now, I don't know about you, but sometimes I forget about the things that I've done, and I wonder if that’s sort of, a getting older person thing.
I was having a conversation with my Mum the other day, and I said “Oh you know, I've led a very ordinary life,” and she started to laugh. She said, “Karen, you have done a lot of things so far in your life” a nd I went, “Oh, do you think so?” She said, “Think about it, girl.”
I happened to go to the doctors. And, um... Blow me over. I went into the doctors. And... The doctor was absolutely lovely.
And it turns out that he's um His hometown is Durham Cellar. which is where I went to in India to study Tibetan medicine and Tibetan astrology.
Now the other funny thing is that I always say, oh I'm not an astrologer. which I'm not. But I have actually studied Tibetan astrology. I think at a time when...
I mean when I actually was there in 1997. It was the very first time. that Tibetan medicine. and astrology had ever been taught in English. Now it's actually a seven-year training program and it's an oral tradition so no written down things and there was myself an environmental scientist from Germany And Dr. Bobbi Rose from...
Palm Springs. and myself from Albury we were the only people who were not medical western medical doctors the rest all were from Russia from all sorts of countries all over the world was pretty amazing. So there's been a series of little things that have have brought this memory back to the fore. and And so I thought I'd just share with you some of the amazing things because it was kind of weird how I even ended up there how I got to know about it.
I was living in Wodonga at the time. And I woke up one morning and I just had this incredible burn. to was right there in my head that I needed to go and do some training to do with herbs.
And I was like, where the hell has this come from? And. So for some... unknown reason. into my brain went. Well, go to the...
Go to the travel agent. you know maybe there's a trip to the amazon or something like that And so I tootled off down to... the travel agent in Wodonga in High Street. and had a chat with one of the ladies there.
She came up with a few things but nothing that was relevant. Anyway, I went home. and blow me over. with a feather. They're on my fax machine. is a sheet.
that's come through. from the Tibetan monks in Melbourne near Broadmeadows. and It's about this course.
that's happening at Menzikhan in Dharamsala. It was exactly the thing. So... I called them, I rang them up. I mean, it's all times right. effects machine in your house. um I rang them up. And... Yeah, I... I tootled off back and...booked myself in for flights and And then I... ran some workshops. to iran I actually ran a... um A weekend.
Healing. retreat. down in ah on Mountain Creek Road. in the Kiwa Valley. And some ladies came from Melbourne and...
Wherever. And that's one of the ways that I actually made the money. And and a girlfriend of mine, we we ran that together. She did the cooking and I did most of it. most of the teaching.
And. um that got the the money ball happening so that I could go. And... um My son at the time was living with his dad.
My brother and my sister-in-law had my daughter for a month I mean, that was major. I think I'm sure afterwards it probably put them off having kids for a little while, but but they were pretty amazing and supported me to go.
And. um I got on ah an airplane and flew to India. like. Off I went. And... um You know, I'd been involved with ah Tibetan Buddhism just a little bit, you know, like I'd done meditation and... The real pull for me was I'd studied. um The books of Alice Bailey.
And. She was actually channeling somebody called... the Tibetan. and um So that's kind of how. the connection for me, how I got involved in.
in that. Um... But yeah, so... I'm not really talking about Tibetan medicine per se today. I just wanted to share some of these amazing synchronicities. and and some of the beautiful memories that.
have just come. as a result of that. so There's a few cool things that happened. One thing. and excuse me if I get a little bit of emotional because it's it's pretty incredible some of the stuff that happened.
06:14.59
Karen Seinor
Um. I mean, just how I heard about it for a start. that I woke up with it there. um So...
06:26.15
Karen Seinor
I knew nobody. I wasn't meeting anyone. I traveled on my own. I arrived in Delhi. and around midnight. And I went. I went out, I remember as a child, my dad was as a soldier and we went to live in Singapore. And, you know,
06:45.71
Karen Seinor
I remember the smell as we went got off the aeroplane in Singapore. I would have been... five or six years old. And the smell hit me. And when I got off the plane in Delhi,
06:58.93
Karen Seinor
in the middle of the night Wham. It was the same kind of smell. It was... you know was the humidity it was the heat and the tropics, it was...
07:11.05
Karen Seinor
It was unique and fabulous, you know. And it was a little bit daunting because I... I went through, I was exhausted. I went through customs and I went out and there's just this sea of people. And if you've been to India, you know what that's like. It is overwhelming. And there's...
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Karen Seinor
carry on and people are trying to get your attention. And there is somebody with my name on a placard, thank heavens. and a very calm, gentle person.
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Karen Seinor
And as it turns out, This gentleman had come the night before because I'd given them the wrong date. So he'd been there waiting for me the night before. I didn't arrive.
07:56.54
Karen Seinor
And he turned up the next night for me. Thank God. because god Goodness knows what would have happened to me if he hadn't have been there to collect me. I was so innocent. I don't think I'd ever really travelled.
08:12.14
Karen Seinor
on my own to a country like that before. and You know, India's not exactly even, you know, 30 years ago, wasn't. really the safest place in the world for a woman to travel.
08:25.54
Karen Seinor
um Probably. safer than it is now but It was pretty overwhelming. Anyway, he drove me to...
08:36.21
Karen Seinor
the hostel. And it was basic. So bloody basic. But I was exhausted. I fell asleep clean, of course. fell asleep. And the next morning...
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Karen Seinor
I woke up to all these. amazing sounds, you know, the sound of the city waking up. And... Had simple food.
09:01.90
Karen Seinor
that I had to go and get. and um I really wanted to go to the marketplace for some reason. And my friend had said to me, Karen, do not go out without a scarf around you.
09:14.62
Karen Seinor
So. Of course I forgot the blasted scarf, didn't I? And the lady at the hostel... got a taxi driver. to take me and I really wanted to go into this marketplace and experience it and he did not want to come with me and I insisted that he come with me.
09:32.59
Karen Seinor
So he did come with me. But on the way, I realized I had had not taken my scarf. So I said, I have to go back and get my scarf. He said, no, no, no, you'll be all right. I said, no, I must. So I insisted and he took me back. He was a bit annoyed with me, but...
09:47.79
Karen Seinor
And when I went into the market, It was, I'd never been. in a place where there were that many people. Just the mass of humanity was overwhelming. It was just like...
10:02.37
Karen Seinor
Um... It was a sea of human humanity, you know, shoulder to shoulder. and um moving and loud and Wow. it was it was incredible actually.
10:18.69
Karen Seinor
And all the sounds and the languages and... And I remember this moment where there was this opening. And there were people selling guns.
10:29.96
Karen Seinor
like machine guns and everything. And I saw this. And. This guy looked at me right in my face. And then the sea of people closed.
10:41.06
Karen Seinor
it was gone and i turned and we walked away i was like oh we need to get out of here Anyway, I sent to the taxi driver because there was a temple close by the marketplace that I really wanted to go into.
10:53.79
Karen Seinor
And. um I had to be dressed appropriately to do that. And the scarf was important for that. So he came with me but he wouldn't enter the temple with me.
11:05.22
Karen Seinor
So it was actually a very special experience. to go in and... I don't remember the name of the temple now. but um I just remember thee.
11:18.13
Karen Seinor
The sense of humbleness and... Um... insignificance. of my own presence and my own life.
11:30.13
Karen Seinor
in that moment. You know, the the history, the age of that temple. And just what ah what a tiny, minute dot I was on the planet, you know.
11:40.72
Karen Seinor
surrounded by all these people. it was actually Pretty fabulous. Anyway. So a bit of an adventure there. and then that night...
11:53.06
Karen Seinor
I caught a bus. to go up to Dharamsala. and This was one hell of a rickety old bus, mate, I gotta tell you. Lucky I was young and stupid, I tell you, because I don't know that I'd be wanting to get on that bus now. But I just launched myself onto it. now What happened is... um
12:15.30
Karen Seinor
I can't recall, I think... that someone from the hostel was also traveling to Dharamsala. and The people at the hostel, they really looked after me so well. I was so cared for.
12:31.48
Karen Seinor
and so protected really. um Little did I know it. And so... I was sat with one of these Tibetan guys who'd been at the hostel. He kind of looked after me. He sat with me on the bus.
12:46.20
Karen Seinor
And. um We head. I think we only had two stops. That's all I remember. If there were others, I obviously slept through them. um between Delhi and...
13:00.20
Karen Seinor
Derm seller. And like, it was... Straight. and then up. Anyway. He was just the most charming.
13:10.77
Karen Seinor
gorgeous young man, chatted to me. He spoke about his family, about Dharamsala, asked about where I came from, all of those things. And. um
13:23.86
Karen Seinor
We stopped at this. Roadhouse. Oh my god. My first. Um, adult experience of having to use one of those squat toilets and it was filthy disgusting.
13:37.35
Karen Seinor
filthy disgusting. Excuse me. for the cough um But. Fortunately, I had thought ahead and I had, you know.
13:50.17
Karen Seinor
my own TP. So. no problems there. and um i was very careful about what I ordered to eat as well. And then we we're back on the bus in no time.
14:04.71
Karen Seinor
And after a short time, like it was amazing. going through the traffic and it's like It's like this. a perfect um chaotic,
14:17.60
Karen Seinor
Vortex. when you see people driving in India. How it works I have no idea but it does. um So it was amazing to watch that happen.
14:29.93
Karen Seinor
And just the color. and the noise. Eventually, we started going up. and we're on a mountain road. And it was still daylight then.
14:42.23
Karen Seinor
So we... and i'm on the outer edge of the bus i'm on the the side of the bus. where I can look down the edge. of the mountain. and down there I'm seeing vehicles that have fallen off the road.
14:58.85
Karen Seinor
That was a... That was a little bit interesting for me. So. I just took some deep breaths. And just keep. you know.
15:10.51
Karen Seinor
I'm fine, I'm on my way. And... Yeah. was fascinating but it was a full moon that night. And eventually at some point, oh my gosh, I thought, oh, I'm going to bust. When are we going to get to a toilet? Well, we did have a stop.
15:27.04
Karen Seinor
And it was in the middle of... God knows where. A beautiful full moon. Massive. And think about... I'm in the Himalayas. and it is a full moon.
15:38.71
Karen Seinor
I'm with all these strangers and this lovely young man explains to me There is no roadhouse. We have to go pee. in the paddock. So...
15:50.77
Karen Seinor
Off I trot. into the paddock. to do a pay. under the moonlight. And every now and then... I do remember. You know, when there's a full moon every now and then I remember that.
16:03.29
Karen Seinor
moment. But um while I was off peeing in the in the front the the light of the full moon in the middle of nowhere in the Himalayas, um because it's a big wide open space.
16:17.03
Karen Seinor
in the dark. and the light. This lovely young man, he went and bought me a chai. It was my first ever. Chau. And it was the yummiest, yummiest thing.
16:32.72
Karen Seinor
And perhaps it was because I was thirsty, because of the moment. The environment, probably a combination of... all those things That was my first experience of chai.
16:46.11
Karen Seinor
well. with that. And back on the bus. And we just kept climbing. And I slept, you know. Anyway, when we um When we arrived, there were only two hotels in Durham Sulla at that time, and I had booked myself the fanciest hotel. And I'd chosen that one because it had a restaurant attached.
17:10.85
Karen Seinor
which was really a cafe. But. um It was great. There were big bugs. The mattresses. But I dealt with that. That was okay.
17:22.95
Karen Seinor
Sorted that out. So... um I think I had a day or so. before the course started. and um
17:35.71
Karen Seinor
It was amazing. It was... I had to walk down this track. And it was mostly Tibetan people in that area. There's another little town just below at the time. I mean, I'm sure it's very different now. It's probably extremely touristy. In fact, that's what I've heard. Very touristy, a lot of international people.
17:54.32
Karen Seinor
But they weren't then. We were the oddity. I was an oddity. um A real oddity. And Dr. Bobby Rose was actually staying at the same hotel as myself.
18:06.23
Karen Seinor
um and we became firm friends. actually. He's passed away now, sadly. but We had a real connection. We had a lovely time. And I learned a lot of things from him.
18:19.21
Karen Seinor
He was a doctor of chiropractic. Even we discussed the possibility he invited me to move to Palm Springs. and that he would sponsor me to become a chiropractor.
18:32.73
Karen Seinor
That's my puppy snoring there. in the background. um But... Ultimately, that was not what I did. but It was an interesting.
18:44.49
Karen Seinor
thing to consider. But. umm Yeah, so I met him. I think day one and we, I think we ended up sitting together actually.
18:56.98
Karen Seinor
So I had to walk down. the mountain basically. on this st dirt road. to get to Mensa Khan. And. Maybe there were about 24 of us.
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Karen Seinor
um doctors and
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Karen Seinor
students. And... um It was incredible. There was a five day basic course. I was hearing... October and October and early November.
19:29.51
Karen Seinor
And then there was a 10-day advanced training. And then there was... a five day, I think the astrology one was after the Tibetan medicine one.
19:40.75
Karen Seinor
it was um five days of Tibetan astrology. And. it was So we were being taught. in English, and they'd never done that before.
19:54.76
Karen Seinor
And the whole idea was that that Um, They wanted to share. their their culture. And.
20:05.02
Karen Seinor
the amazing healing. practices that they... they use and that have worked. for so darn long it was really amazing actually Really amazing.
20:21.47
Karen Seinor
Um... i I wrote copious notes. for that month. And it's only recently that I have. actually disposed ah of those notebooks and the reason that I did that is the ink was actually fading. and I thought am I going to go through and sift all this information out and I thought no I actually don't need to.
20:47.58
Karen Seinor
It was the experience. It's in me now. you know. it's um
20:54.67
Karen Seinor
It's not information that I need to spit back out. It's almost like... it's almost like the learning was a consolidation of things I already knew. That's what it felt like.
21:08.59
Karen Seinor
It put things in place for me. End. Yeah, so I didn't need the notes. It was the experience. Breathe it in, you know.
21:20.100
Karen Seinor
It was pretty cool. Yeah. So excuse me, I'm just going to cough. Cough Cough Oh goodness. Just getting over a cold. So... I mean Tibetan medicine.
21:33.27
Karen Seinor
is I'm just going to have a little note here. for the believe It is... The way they taught us. is There's a a tanker so it's a um a visual of a tree.
21:48.03
Karen Seinor
And these three... um Three big. branches to that tree and so um three big trunks i guess And um each of those is a different area and there's are branches and leaves. and And so that's how they taught us using the Tungka. And it was amazing. I actually bought a copy of it. tanka of course it wasn't it wasn't hand stitch it was a a copy of it and I had that framed.
22:17.83
Karen Seinor
when I got home and I i loved it. Um... and that imagery. It's like it connected me into the teaching. It was quite quite powerful.
22:30.35
Karen Seinor
a beautiful way to teach actually a wonderful way to learn it's like it moves into you you know um Yeah, ah let me just...
22:41.04
Karen Seinor
Let me just... consult my notes because i want to give you something that's at least of value. so the four tantras it's credited to the 12th century physician whose name I cannot pronounce correctly.
22:54.04
Karen Seinor
You took. Yontan Gonpo. is my bastardized Australian version of the pronunciation, so I apologize. And so... It focuses on... um Three energies to keep balance, ah the wind, the bile and the phlegm.
23:12.66
Karen Seinor
And diagnosis is done by reading the pulse. and We had the... incredible privilege of having His Holiness' as personal physician.
23:25.53
Karen Seinor
be one of our lecturers. And he of course, taught us he was speaking Tibetan and one of the the Tibetan doctors translated that into English.
23:37.43
Karen Seinor
So he did do some of the lectures for us. And he was he came over with his holiness when his holiness was a child. So that would have been in 1959. and I was very honored to...
23:52.19
Karen Seinor
have a conversation with him one day at lunch. And he actually did the seven wondrous pulses. on me. to diagnose my mother.
24:02.100
Karen Seinor
Because my mum's been... had some health issues for many years with... um rheumatoid and osteoarthritis and I just spoke to him and...
24:14.00
Karen Seinor
I asked him if he could recommend. um Any medications for? My mum who was ill. And... So he asked my permission and he he actually did the seven and it's it's amazing. He just pressed his fingers.
24:31.39
Karen Seinor
onto my Mist. in a number of places And then he... told me what was wrong with my mum. I didn't tell him.
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Karen Seinor
He told me what her condition was. And. i was I was truly blown away if I had been a sceptic.
24:55.22
Karen Seinor
That would have turned me, I can tell you. um And I didn't arrive as a skeptic. I didn't arrive as a believer. I just had to be there actually. But when he did that, I was blown away.
25:07.30
Karen Seinor
so he um He basically provided a script and I got that filled. and um
25:19.29
Karen Seinor
Interestingly enough, that medication did. arrive. at my mother's home. That's a whole other story that we won't share here. but um and It was incredible. So they use the seven wondrous pulses. That's what it's called.
25:35.89
Karen Seinor
and Also, urine analysis. So... the patient. Peace. into a jug. or into a vessel and you stir the urine and so that's one of the things that we learn is um We were taught by the doctors the different things to look at.
25:55.03
Karen Seinor
in the urine, how it bubbles, the colour, the smell. the taste, all sorts of things was absolutely fascinating. very ancient system.
26:06.37
Karen Seinor
And really. Totally spot on. And it has a real strong spiritual connection too. So there's um you know traditionally...
26:16.84
Karen Seinor
there is this whole thing about... um You know, spirits is part of it as well. So... Yeah, and of course me being me.
26:27.64
Karen Seinor
I did ask the difficult questions and I think that the... Um, the doctors who were doing the lecturing. were a little shocked by some of my questions but though it's the first time they'd ever done it they were on the back foot they answered so I got the answers I needed.
26:45.29
Karen Seinor
I would imagine. that. After that, they probably would have skirted those kinds of questions because it may have...
26:56.70
Karen Seinor
caused some skepticism for some of the western medical doctors that were present for the studies. but And, you know, they used things like they spoke about.
27:08.37
Karen Seinor
One of the... the treatments that I remember that I thought was really barbaric. um actually. was the use of a gold needle.
27:18.95
Karen Seinor
and it was bloody thick i've got to tell you and hammered into the the crown of the head. But interestingly enough, In later years, I went...
27:29.85
Karen Seinor
for acupuncture. on a regular basis actually he locally with a really fabulous acupuncturist Dr Lou, some of you might have heard of him. He was traditionally trained in China.
27:43.19
Karen Seinor
and he used to put a needle in the crown of my head. was And. It didn't freak me out because I... It wasn't thick like the...
27:54.24
Karen Seinor
The gold one. that the Tibetan doctors used. yeah what else so Um... Yeah, and the other the other ways, of course, of diagnosis with Tibetan medicine is you know they look at your tongue and your skin and your face and um ask you lots of questions as well so which is would be standard medical practice even today.
28:18.44
Karen Seinor
um Yeah, let me have a little think about it. so They look at diet, behavior, lifestyle, those kinds of things. um And moxibustion is a treatment therapy as well.
28:32.93
Karen Seinor
and the precious pills. that they make. are made from all kinds of cool things. even Dare I say it?
28:44.43
Karen Seinor
um the dung from certain animals. and some of these plants. are that they are used are only grown in very specific places in the himalayas very very um specific very unique plants. I mean, it's a...
29:02.89
Karen Seinor
It's a very unique environment up there. in Tibet. So. But some of them, of course, are available in India too. And at Binsi Khan at that time, they were really working on developing...
29:19.40
Karen Seinor
um growing some of the plants that they needed for their medicine for the for the precious pills yeah Um...
29:30.63
Karen Seinor
Yeah, the other thing of course is the Medicine Buddha. is a big part of the the medical practice. Yeah. A very fascinating time. i've And, of course, because of the...
29:45.34
Karen Seinor
the historical nature of this experience. I don't have a ton of photos, I've got some. um but of course they've faded a little bit the color's not the same no iphones back then That's for certain.
29:59.99
Karen Seinor
Yeah. Um, What did I want to tell you about? Oh yeah. Look, I... I... I actually did a little...
30:12.42
Karen Seinor
wandered down to the the little village. below Dharamsala which was more um people of from India rather than people from Tibet. which is what Durham Sulla was mostly the population. And I i had um my Indian astrology chart done on because I was interested. and The gentleman sold me some garnets.
30:37.10
Karen Seinor
and I'd actually... taken with me over there from Australia. this Golden barrel.
30:49.12
Karen Seinor
it had come to me. And I'd been really guided to actually buy it. And it was a weird... sort of situation but anyway I did buy it and it was I later found out it was for my pancreas, which is to do with a whole lot of other things of a spiritual nature for me.
31:10.43
Karen Seinor
um to help me do my spiritual work. to deal with sugars and things like that in my body. Anywho, i so I knew that... I was gonna have this.
31:21.50
Karen Seinor
golden barrel. Sit. while I was in India. And. um
31:30.50
Karen Seinor
Anyway, so I bought these two garnets from this Indian astrologer.
31:37.47
Karen Seinor
because it was you know showed up in my chart and everything. Anyway.
31:44.70
Karen Seinor
I spoke to...
31:48.90
Karen Seinor
you know I used to have dinner. at the at the cafe with the or the restaurant rather. at the hotel. like basic basic but beautiful food beautiful food um And one night... So I'll come back to the jewelry thing because that's connected with this. this part of the story.
32:09.13
Karen Seinor
These two young Tibetan men came in one night and they could see I was sitting by myself at a table and they very politely came and spoke to me in English. and asked if it would be possible for them to sit with me.
32:22.79
Karen Seinor
and converse so that they could practice their English. And I mean, I was by myself and I said certainly. And so... We struck up a...
32:33.65
Karen Seinor
conversation. And what happened is they came back each night. just for a half hour chat. And so we kind of got to know each other and then they brought a third friend.
32:46.41
Karen Seinor
And I was asking them about their life and how they came to be. in India in Dharamsala. And... They started to share their story.
32:58.16
Karen Seinor
And... Keep in mind that I'm this young woman from a very safe country.
33:09.39
Karen Seinor
in Australia at that time, you know, and Albury is a Wodonga. I lived in Wodonga at the time, which is Albury-Wodonga, very close. um in your country area. I had a country mindset.
33:22.10
Karen Seinor
and you know pretty protected life in lots of ways. And I'm hearing this story. from these young men. where they had escaped.
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Karen Seinor
from Tibet. and they had traveled. I got into a truck.
33:42.63
Karen Seinor
and escaped. to a certain point, and then they walked. over the Himalayas.
33:51.00
Karen Seinor
No food. They just walked. There was a group of them. I mean they were risking their lives for their freedom. and um I'm just getting a little emotional remembering that. story. and um They were very careful about how they... shared the story and so and I very respectfully because we were getting to know each other.
34:15.25
Karen Seinor
asked a few questions and they shared with me their fears about sharing the story. about their... Because... These young guys, these two two of the guys had actually had a private audience with His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
34:34.52
Karen Seinor
because he heard about. the Their escape. And. you know, their arrival in Durham Sulla. And. part of the reason that they were practicing their English is because His Holiness had encouraged them to share their story.
34:53.57
Karen Seinor
Um, So that the world would know. what was going on in Tibet to the Tibetan people.
35:02.52
Karen Seinor
But of course these young men wanted to do that and they did do that. End. I... said that I would share their story, which... I did when I came home. i I wrote that. down and I...
35:17.42
Karen Seinor
I sent it, I don't even remember where I sent it, but it was published. was published in some Magazine somewhere. And I don't even have a copy of it anymore.
35:29.01
Karen Seinor
but um Or if I do, I i haven't found it. And I think... Back then... I did have a computer my very first computer someone gave it to me actually.
35:42.54
Karen Seinor
um
35:45.63
Karen Seinor
But they were they didn't want their names used.
35:50.42
Karen Seinor
or their place of origin because they were fearful for their family. who were still in Tibet that they would be punished. And I took that very, very seriously. very seriously because every day that I was walking to Menzikhan there and back I walked past a clinic And there was a big sign out the front of it that said, Torture survivor. victim clinic.
36:16.09
Karen Seinor
Torture survivor. victim clinic. That was the name of the clinic. It was for people who had been tortured. and survived.
36:27.08
Karen Seinor
That did my freaking head in, I've got to tell you. That did my head in.
36:33.92
Karen Seinor
And I remember that I put that. photo. with the story. as evidence that it was real. Do you know what I mean? Because me myself, I couldn't believe that this sort of stuff was going on. I hadn't heard about it.
36:49.29
Karen Seinor
I knew that China had taken Tibet. But I didn't understand. the the depth of that. and what it actually meant until I was sitting in the Himalayas listening.
37:03.78
Karen Seinor
to the story from these young men's own experience. And what happened? but One of the things that happened on that trip was they were captured by Nepalese soldiers at the border.
37:18.73
Karen Seinor
And there were some young women. with him. as well. End.
37:27.18
Karen Seinor
They were badly treated. And I won't talk about... um
37:37.33
Karen Seinor
some of the things because it's disturbing. But um...
37:46.33
Karen Seinor
those young men were deeply traumatized because they knew what happened to those girls. one in particular um
37:58.13
Karen Seinor
very tragic Very, very tragic.
38:04.70
Karen Seinor
But they got away. They bribed one of the soldiers with a watch. And they got away from. The soldiers. and they made it to Durham Solar.
38:18.21
Karen Seinor
And... They all live to tell the tale. So... Anyway. So that's... That's a very sad.
38:30.28
Karen Seinor
part of that experience but um
38:36.20
Karen Seinor
as As the conversations continued... over a few nights I did mention to... these guys that I'd... Um.
38:49.06
Karen Seinor
that I'd love to get that you know that I had brought this golden barrel with me from home and that I'd love to get it set. in you know, some jewelry.
39:00.55
Karen Seinor
and Did they know where I could go? Holy Magoli. had I hit gold. um literally So I got put onto one of the... women who worked at this hotel who
39:17.79
Karen Seinor
it Must have been her. a relative of hers I can't remember if it was her father or her grandfather might have been her father
39:28.99
Karen Seinor
He was a jeweler. And he came out. with his holiness. in that first trip. when His Holiness came. from Tibet.
39:40.15
Karen Seinor
this gentleman.
39:43.61
Karen Seinor
was with him. So... She took me. we made a day and a time and she took me and I'm walking up this Go track.
39:55.19
Karen Seinor
um And it's where the Tibetan people were living in basically... real subsistence because these guys are refugees. They're refugees.
40:06.36
Karen Seinor
in a poor country.
40:10.01
Karen Seinor
What an amazing man. So... Up this goat track. past all these different, I guess they'd be... kind of such humble.
40:21.23
Karen Seinor
Little homes, really. I suppose it would be a shanty place, some people would say. But... and I was welcomed into his home very simple.
one grain. and I showed him the stone. And I actually had the gun. It's with me. And...
He said to me, with the golden barrel. He asked me what I wanted. And he suggested a ring and I said, yes, that would be lovely.
And he just... um said to me, that he would do it in gold. 24 karat gold. And. he would do it traditional way.
And I just said, okay. And I just agreed. yeah I wasn't going to bloody negotiate a prize with this guy. Excuse me. Sorry about the cough. Anyway. um And with the garnets. heat And I'll show you the garment. These are the earrings. Very simple. And this is the ring. which I still have.
And it's all hand carved. Now, unfortunately, because of the softness And, of course, I wore it. like a mad woman all the time. that It's sort of sunk in a little bit. I've banged it around probably.
but it is. The real. to you. That's great. But more importantly... It was...
the beauty of meeting this person. this gentleman. End. being so Honoured to have met him. to see the exquisite nature of his work.
and to pay him a very... probably a very good price. um a fair price.
and for it to still be here. I don't know, it was just... It was such a... a gift. to me too. be able to have that experience.
And um I do believe that this... um stone and this whole Tibetan thing it it streamed something together for me I can't really put my finger on it but one of the things that happens with people who And I've only discovered this relatively recently actually.
Um, One of the... health conditions that happens to people who work. in trance.
ah So... with mediumship and and or channeling, if you want to call it that. um is there can often be a blood sugar issue. diabetes can sometimes become a problem because something happens when you drop down into trans and then you're coming out there's this shift in the blood sugar if There's a bit of research that's been done on it.
and um Of course, when I first started working as a clinical hypnotist, I had no idea. that Most people.
who do that work do not go into trance, that they use scripts. I didn't know that I just. I used to drop into a trance state.
and I'd get the client to go into trance. I would drop into a light trance. And. Usually I got a whole bunch of information ah beforehand. I'd write notes before they came.
And usually. bullet points and things and then i drop into trance and um do... the hypno hypnotic sort of session for them and I was basically entrapped.
And then I'd come up and then I'd bring them up. So.
I think I actually needed something. to support my um, system. for the work that I was yet to do at that time.
because I didn't start doing trance work. Until many, many years later, I was... Probably. I was in my early 40s then. when I started doing that work.
And so this is... quite a long this trip was quite a long time before then so to me there's a real connection with that plus my studies with the Tibetan.
as well yeah anyway that's me just sort of putting some threads together um retrospectively, I guess. Um... What else can I share with you about this trip?
Yeah. Now the Tibetan astrology If you're interested in that, Mincy Khan does actually publish a yearly Tibetan almanac, which you might be interested in in looking at.
And there is a strong link with Tibetan medicine and Tibetan astrology so the times that the medicines are made up, when they're taken, all that kind of thing, the person's chart.
their um character and what have you it's all together. Um... And there's something called what? Okatsi what astrology?
And napsi. I'm sure I'm bastardizing the pronunciation, so I apologize, which is more elemental. um astrology and has more of the Chinese flavor.
so you know the 12 animals the five elements and it's a 60-year cycle so it's it's that system um So the wide astrology basically comes from India. and It's based on the color chakra.
Tantra. which is the wheel of time. So yeah. interesting. Now, the other thing that I wanted to share with you.
was Perhaps one of... the most
Amazing and moving experiences. of that trip. Um. and something that demonstrated the power of.
People. and heart. of spirit. So. I'll just speak about it. um It's simple. all right it and it's sort of a you had to be there to get it kind of deal you know but um We can go there together.
So. and
Very simple people.
refugees, In a foreign land, they've given been given... um safety they're allowed to be in India. They're allowed to speak their language.
to practice. Tibetan Buddhism. Beautiful. but are people that have been through... enormous difficulty and they are people of courage.
profound courage. and deeply, deeply spiritual in the ways that really are spiritual. You know, we we all know it. Spiritual, virtual. There's a lot of people that talk the talk.
and say they're walking the walk. But...
Yeah. For some, for some it's it's it's more hopeful than actual. Anyhow. There was... um a special celebration. at this time.
And um of course. all of us as students we knew about this the doctors our lecturers told us about it we were invited to go to the celebration and they told us all about it so it was the anniversary of the Tibetan Children's Village. Now this was um Let me get this right.
there's an anniversary on the 23rd of October every year and of course that was right in between out. our our um beginners class and our advanced class of Tibetan medicine. And. um basically, Yeah, it's called the Tibetan Children's Village but it's an orphanage.
That's what it was. It still is. It's an orphanage for um refugee children or orphan children. Okay. and it It was actually, it began in 1960 for 51 kids. Think about that, 51 children. who arrived on the 17th of May. 1960. Sick and malnourished.
My god. Yeah. um Anyway. It's much bigger now. It's changed from being... you know the orphanage the refugee stuff to the Tibetan children's village it's sort of been Rename TCV.
And. they educate the children. and care for the children and feed the children. Anyway, so... we walk up this lemon big hill there are a lot of hills there hill walks very good for the cardio And so there's just people everywhere.
old ladies, ancient old ladies walking with flasks. And they're just trudging up, mate, these people are fit as. And. um So...
I traveled with my... Fellow students, a couple of us. We gather together. End. we there's this great big oval looks like Um, you know The Oval of the MCG down there. right But we are sitting on the dirt.
on this very super steep hill. and it was bloody freezing I've got to tell you absolutely super cold And. Then...
Some monks came and sat down, not very far from us. kind of behind us. within a metre of us, maybe half a metre away. And you know what?
no longer called. No longer cold. And I didn't really notice it until they left. So we'll speak about that later.
But that is a skill. that the monks Actually. utilize and there's been some research done it anyway um Now, actually, I'll speak about it now. It's it's called TUMO.
And it's it's the inner fire meditation. And so the monks can generate body heat through their breath. And. um It's said that they can actually dry wet sheets that are wrapped around them in freezing air.
And Harvard researchers have looked at this and measured um the real rises in the monk's body temperature. now They've never really done any research as far as I know on whether that heat can move out to people around them. But I know from my own personal experience and my friends, my fellow students who are with me.
noticed it too. we looked at each other and went. It was them. It was. bloody amazing. I had no idea that stuff existed. Anyway, so that that's that's about that. but um So we're sitting there waiting. There's all this noise. People are talking amongst themselves. It's just heaps of people. It was just like being at the grand final, really.
And then... Something changed.
something changed. Like. Suddenly all the chatter. fell away. And it became silent.
and everybody. And they were... I have no idea how many people. But think MCG. And. All these people stood up, they got to their feet.
And they started to sing.
Just... They started to sing.
And it was. Amazing. Absolutely amazing. and the swell of energy.
And then there was the sound of this trumpet. Like, I don't know, it's not a trumpet trumpet, but... of this really long horn. And then some cars came in.
And it was the Dalai Lamas. entourage. It's like, how did they know? They knew. And... um
They sang. And then they all became silent. And they said,
And it was the most profound experience to sit in that energy, to be with these people. And to feel this heat. Spoke. And it was.
Incredible. to Hear him speak. And.
only I'll never ever forget that experience. It was amazing. And there was a lot of the kids all did. um certain activities but the thing that sticks in my mind Sorry, I'm getting a little choked up.
the thing that sticks in my mind. Now remember that these kids are orphans. And these people are refugees. And they are... not in their country.
China has taken their country. So there's all these groups of children and they're marching around this big oval and One group comes in and there's a flag bearer.
And there's all this clapping and... singing and Words and blessings are being spoken. And.
Every single country. in the world. is represented.
and China. is rep the Chinese flag. And they sang and they blessed. and they clapped just the same. And that, I think...
It broke my heart open.
It broke my heart open. Because that... was a demonstration. in very real terms. of the Dalai Lamas.
Position. On. Love.
His example. to his people. and his people following his example. To love all. was amazing.
Yeah. Pretty profound stuff.
I think That changed me. And it's set. Yeah, it's just just incredible. you can You can talk about it.
or you can live it. You do. And it's a lot harder to live it. when you see And you know. the difficulties that go with that.
You kind of have to hold. You have to hold steady. With your beliefs, you know Don't talk about it.
Walk the journey. here Anyway, that's a lot of blah blah blah. Oh. I think that's probably all I really wanted to share with you.
They're the things that have really stuck with me. So 30 years later, these are the things that have really mattered to me about that trip. And it was a profoundly...
Deeply spiritual. experience. Yeah. And a real blessing. I feel so honoured. to have been able to Experience. the people, the place, the energy. Yeah. Anyway, that's that. Have a beautiful day, and as you do, I hope you too can walk the talk. And maybe the example of the Tibetan people will touch you too.
Much love.
Karenxxx